Discussion in 'Economics' started by Raisin, 11 July 2016.

  1. Amerika

    Amerika Member

    This is to my mind the big shift in understanding: we used to worry about Leftism at face value, whether this plan or that would fix our issues and problems. Now we are realizing that the type of civilization we create changes us, and that we are being made into weenie blue-haired SJW types by Leftism, which includes any form of thought based on equality, or ending the practice of rewarding the good and punishing the bad.

    If we have a society which emphasizes good behavior by placing the best at the top, then the bad behavior that occurs under capitalism now is limited by the fact that the people responsible for it have less power.
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  2. Manu

    Manu Señor Member Sustaining Member
    1. Norden
    2. Knights of the Iron Cross

    Have a gold star, sir! That was a good way of putting it.
  3. Azaeroe

    Azaeroe Senior Member

    i have essentially become a Leftist

    if that is innapropriate then ban me

    the reason is simple

    Capitalism is a system in which the lumpenproletariat proliferates itself through oligarchic exploitation which will inevitably lead to the dissolution of civilisation as we know it

    the only response to this is fourfold as far as i am concerned

    all four of which are ideologies of the Left as far as I am concerned

    they are -

    1. Marxism-Leninism-Stalinism - the erection of a vanguard of skilled proletarians and students which shall proliferate itself and wage war upon ist class enemies and upon Jews until a Socialist economy is achieved - following on from this the state shall dissolve itself

    2. non-Proudhonic Syndicalism - the erection of unions of skilled proletarians which shall own shares in industry

    3. Corporatism - the erection of corporations of specialists which shall legislate industrial interaction

    4. almagamatory Fascism a la Sir Oswald Mosley
    Last edited: 7 July 2018
  4. Manu

    Manu Señor Member Sustaining Member
    1. Norden
    2. Knights of the Iron Cross

    Capitalism as such requires an urban industrial or post-industrial world. While capitalism is preferable to socialism, there are better ways.

    Two better ways would be either going back to a more primitive ecological society based on sustainable agriculture without machinery or pesticides OR finding zero point energy, retaining nature-friendly high tech and essentially doing the same. In the former, food would essentially be currency and bartering would make banks and corporations obsolete. In the second form of decentralized ecological high tech society, automation and free energy would essentially mean every man was free to pursue other goals. There would be no need for money since all basic needs would be free. People could pursue enlightenment, the arts, sports, exploration and the way of the warrior. My doubts about the second is that perhaps it would lead to weakness? What do the rest of you think? How could weakness and degeneration be avoided in the eco-tech utopia?
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  5. JonhOliver

    JonhOliver Member

    I think that we could reconcile the high tech ecotopia, with the existence of labor, in the more meaningful sense of the word, and with hardened and physically strong people.
    In my vision of this society, while we could utilize technology to produce certain commodities, electricity,medicine, bigger projects like space travel if we went into that direction, most things would be handcrafted in a guild style system by local communities. What this means is that products like furniture, clothes, agriculture, etc.. would stay localized and be handcrafted with limited use of technology. The products would be produced in lower quantities, but they would have a much higher quality as they would be the work of a craftsmen whose whole life was dedicated to that trade. I think that in this way we could solve the issue of the lack of resources, given the lower amount of things produced, but also the problem of rampant unemployment.
    When it comes to the problem of high material comfort producing a weak and degenerate people, i think we can take some advice from the example of the Spartans. It was possible for them to live a luxurious life, they ruled over thousands of helots that could have provided for all of the material needs they wanted. They could have expanded more, and try to conquer foreign lands in search of gold or women, but they instead chose to live a more austere and harsh life. In our society, we'd have to turn the allure of living a lazy life without any struggle or personal effort into something inherently appealing and ugly like bars of iron, which was the Spartan solution to end the allure of gold and money among their people.
    Our citizens instead of spending their whole life trying to satisfy some insatiable material needs, like modern people do, they would rather have only the amount of material goods necessary to be able to foster self improvement and physical,mental and spiritual growth. Most people nowadays spend their life like a man trying to catch his own shadow, trying to find their happiness in things exterior to them, temporal and short lived like having the most expensive car, having lots of promiscuous sex or vacations. The citizens in the ideal ecotopia though, even if they could engage in such a life, would chose not to as they would be taught from birth that true happiness comes from higher things. Thus they would understand that there´s no need to have 2 or 3 cars per house, dozens of technological gadgets and appliances or to have their house be at 30 degrees Celsius during the winter, as they would know that actual bliss doesn't come from such things.
    There is a very good talk by William Pierce on how this could look like:

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  6. Arboreality

    Arboreality Member

    Capitalism is one step up in terms of Regression of the Castes relative to Communism. We have to remember that practically no ideology that has ever been implemented on a large scale is free from all degeneration. At best we have Ghibelline echoes which give us an idea of what society will look like after the Kali Yuga, but even they pale in comparison as to what's really possible with a collective efficacious connection to the Center. Feudalism (Kshatriya-mindset), Capitalism (Vaishya-mindset), and Communism (Sudra-mindset) are more survival methods than they are ways of life.

    Each caste dominates one by one as the lack of connection to the Superworld facilitates this to happen. Each one is more material than the last, and this degeneration rate itself increases almost exponentially. Monarchical Feudalism lasted a lot longer than liberal capitalism will. Capitalism will have likely lasted a lot longer than Communism will. That being said, I wouldn't call myself a fan of many aspects of capitalism, even the Darwinian aspects are degenerated. It's not really comparable to biological Darwinism in all the ways that matter. Capitalism plays according to its own rules, as others have mentioned.

    In the natural world, organisms often compete freely in a variety of ways. However, they are forced to reach an equilibrium at some point if they want to survive long term. Even the strongest predators have to reach a balance with their environment because they are dependent on a complex system of interwoven systems to survive. Organisms don't even need to be aware of this fact, they just embody it. Human capitalism on the other hand is capable of being aware of this fact, but often just isn't. Economics exists in a realm of its own, knowing the price of everything but the value of nothing. Capitalism in its most distilled state seeks constant insatiable growth. That is fundamentally unnatural in every organism except diseases.
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  7. JonhOliver

    JonhOliver Member

    Evola wrote that modern western capitalism, is what happens when the merchant or bourgeoisie caste is in power, but i'd actually argue that the modern west is ruled by "5th caste" which means the pariahs. The reason i'd say this, is because the highest values of society aren't even that of having a lot of money, with a comfortable family in the suburbs and a very lowly sense of nationality and patriotism. In actual fact, our countries aren't really ruled by merchants, they're ruled in an open sense by the democratic masses, money doesn't give you more votes, and on a real sense, by the international elites and bankers.

    These bankers and elites, are the true pariahs, as they have loyalty to no nation, no religion, nothing besides money and their goals. At least, during the bourgeoisie period, they still kept the pretense of being part of the national idea.

    One can also see we´re ruled by pariahs, by our societies fixation and glorification of deviant sexual behavior. People that in a normal society would be rightly shunned, are now treated as brave warriors and special simply for existing, like for example homosexuals, single mothers, adulterers, etc.. Not only that, but our countries politicians explicitly try to replace and destroy the natives of their country on a racial, cultural and spiritual level. I read this elsewhere, but the future isn't like Orwell imagined, but it's a mulatto downloading porn from his Chinese i phone in a small urban apartment.

    One can then argue, that the soviet union was actually superior to the modern west, as it was a state that was ruled for the soviet peasants, with some kind of values and ideals in mind, instead of the pure nihilism and purposelessness of modern western society. There's also the empirical observation of the fact that, countries that lived under the iron curtain are much more healthy now than those of western Europe, and still keep some residues of traditional values.
    Last edited: 7 September 2018
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  8. RabGospodnyy

    RabGospodnyy Member

    Very true. We have entered a stage of degeneration that might have been unimaginable to the Traditionalist School: the relatively brief, but utterly horrifying rule of the Avarna.
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