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Homosexuality in ancient cultures & your views on homosexuality

Discussion in 'Anthropology' started by inn digri, 9 March 2014.

  1. inn digri

    inn digri Senior Member

    As was carefully suggested by Valvar, a thread on homosexuality. I won't write a lot, since I am sure other people will have much to say on it, and so they will get a first go, but as a warm-up, this interesting historical notion: in viking age Scandinavia, it wasn't so much the 'love between men' part that was the problem, it was the problem that one of the parties had to assume the role of the woman. So, being a guy and fucking another guy was A-OK, but being a guy and being fucked, that was about as bad as it could get.

    There are written sources (going as far back as pre-viking Roman times, as according to Tacitus' Germania i.e.) that tell about horrible punishments among Germanic people for committing corpore infames (if you consider drowning in a swamp horrible, that is... it seems rather unpleasant to me). And...

    Found here

    ibid

    That (article) covers the old Scandinavian view on it (or does it?) But to give this forum a twist apart from just asking people for their general opinion on homosexuality:

    What are the current and were the past practices of 'dealing' with this kind of sexually deviant people among different cultures, traditions, and people across the world? Or... just your own opinion will do :-P
     
  2. Well, so they thought then. Science does show us that homosexual men do have a psychological dysfunction, though. Their amygdala, which besides other things, control thinking regarding right and wrong is either damaged or underdeveloped. Much like psychopaths, who suffer from a related disorder.

    My hypothesis is that this is why male homosexuals seldom act normally in other areas as well, and why many seem to be psychopaths that live destructively and perversely in order to feel anything at all. This is also why they hate normal people; because they cannot be happy.
     
  3. inn digri

    inn digri Senior Member

    So what was this study (or more) called? I'm quite curious about them. Really surprised that any scientific article would 'dare' to publish such a result that is so against what we are supposed to think nowadays (given the mainstream ideas). There is then still hope for science to be the dissenting voice every now and then...

    And I wonder if the same goes for homosexual women (lesbians). In a way I suspect a difference, because I think for women 'loving' is a completely different process then for men. But that idea is just what it is, an idea, I have no clue whether this has been investigated and supported by science or not...
     
  4. I am having serious trouble finding the original whole research by Ivanka Savic at Karolinska Institutet. It is phrased extremely delicately, but essentially you come to understand that homosexual men have developed certain areas while others are not normally developed. The russian gay laws are partially founded on this research. Here is a politically correct reference to it.

    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/111663.php

    Anyway. If you have seen any docu or read anything at all about psychopathy you will have heard about the very similar amygdala dysfunction. Google it. "Psychopathy amygdala".

    I am on my phone, so you might want to google heavily. For instance, over 40 percent of the psychopths arrested for murder have had homosexual experiences. It really is not a stretch, since it stems from a similar dysfunction.

    Next, use your own eyes. Examine the characters of homosexuals. Look at their eyes and behavior. Now tell me, do they come off as exaggerated and fake?

    It is mental illness.
     
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  5. inn digri

    inn digri Senior Member

    Found it!
    Full reference (if anyone else is interested)= Ivanka Savic and Per Lindström. PET and MRI show differences in cerebral asymmetry and functional connectivity between homo- and heterosexual subjects. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 2008; DOI:10.1073/pnas.0801566105

    But a very different article indeed. Also an answer to my previous question, what about lesbians. I quote another article on this research:
    from here.

    Interesting, but it doesn't say anything about the link between psychopathy and being gay. It does state that gay men look more like heterosexual women (brain-wise). Couldn't find a direct reference to psychopathy in the article either, but I haven't read it fully yet, so it might still be there.

    Yeah I could base my opinion on that, but I'm never too confident in such home-based experiences when it comes to mental processes. I can't even figure out how my own brain works, let alone figure out others'. That said, 'most' gay people do seem to exaggerate their state of being. However, maybe only those who exaggerate are noticed, and maybe there are many more homosexual people out there that we just don't know about because they're not exaggerating... it could be...

    But in any case, if it's an innate brain-structure, then can we blame people for having this sexual predisposition? It's not like they were actively involved in the early development stages of their own foetus... ​
     
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  6. Deukalion

    Deukalion Guest

    I do take an issue with the question about Greek sex life, however. Most of that has been proven to be false. Ιn ancient Athens, being a homosexual had serious consequences, and I am afraid I will have to deviate from the topic a little bit.

    For instance, a homosexual could not :

    • Be a priest
    • Have any sort of political power
    • Voice his/her opinion publicly ( their opinion held no worth at all )
    • Be one of the nine Archons of the city
    • Attend religious events
    • Go to the agora
    • Wear an olive wreathe
    Doing anything of the above while a homosexual, was punishable by death.

    Again, I apologize for the deviation.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 4 April 2014
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  7. Olavsson

    Olavsson First Lieutenant Staff Member
    1. Lumine Boreali Gentlemen's Club
    2. Neoplatonism

    Moderator-report:

    1. I changed the thread-title to be more informing about the contents of the thread, and...
    2. I copied a post by Deukalion concerning homosexuality in ancient Hellas over to this thread, since it fits right in.

    I'll see if I post some of my personal opinions about this controversial subject later.
     
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  8. Olavsson

    Olavsson First Lieutenant Staff Member
    1. Lumine Boreali Gentlemen's Club
    2. Neoplatonism

    I'll share some quick personal thoughts about the question of homosexuality.

    Homosexual activities seem to have been relatively accepted in many ancient Aryan cultures. As long as a man fulfilled his duties (including - ideally - the continuation of the bloodline) and kept to the codes of masculine honour, the question of homosexuality in society seems to have been somewhat of a non-issue. (As has already been pointed out, the main-issue seems to have been an aversion - and rightly so - against a man being like a woman). The very idea of a homosexual identity, "being gay", did not exist in ancient European cultures. You were a man or you were a woman (which meant you were expected to live up to certain duties as a member of your family/clan or city), honourable or dishonourable, and that was it. The concept of different sexual "orientations" or "identities" is a modern social construct.

    And as positioned on the anti-modern True Right, that should also be our main issue concerning 'homosexuality', namely the "gay" identity and culture. We can't expect homosexual tendencies to disappear from the population when they have always existed according to our knowledge of history. However, we both can and should root out the degenerate "gay" sub-culture, its exposure in the public space and in the mass-media, and the existence of a separate "gay" identity opposed to "heteronormativity", the traditional family and so on. Homosexuality should be made a non-issue altogether. I couldn't care less what other people are up to sexually as long as they do not push it on me, make a big "thing" of it and propagate for it. What matters to our perspective is whether "homosexual" individuals act honourably in society, serve their kin and are loyal citizens of the state.

    That's the cultural and political aspect. There's also the metaphysical perspective. Seen from the metaphysical angle, I think homosexuality is pretty pointless, since it does not involve the magnetic polarity between two unified opposite principles. But then, many people's heterosexuality is pretty base, too, since it only involves the lower lust-aspect and not higher sexuality with a transcendent dimension.
     
    Last edited: 5 April 2014
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  9. One aspect that is often overlooked is the biological causation - is homosexuality really a 'natural' aberration or is it a health disorder that could be treated if proper research was invested in the area? (Edit: I should of course read the thread properly the next time I post. This topic was already doing pretty well here.) Due to the prevailing political climate, such questions are of course not currently viable - but it was not long ago that they were and I am sure that as we start taking a more reactionary turn they will be so again.
     
    Last edited: 29 August 2014
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  10. Olavsson

    Olavsson First Lieutenant Staff Member
    1. Lumine Boreali Gentlemen's Club
    2. Neoplatonism

    That's indeed an interesting question, but one I will leave to someone with more extensive knowledge of the subject.

    Not necessarily. The 'reactionary' Right, unless it is inspired by Christian Puritanism, is mostly concerned with the health of the whole: that the culture thrives and is generally permeated by the right ethos and spirituality, that the biological stock is strong, and that the state is ordered and aligned according to the right hierarchy. What it is not so concerned with is to act as a moral police and to inspect every detail of a person's life. The Traditional state accepts human nature and understands that even degeneracy can exist within its greater frame, albeit subordinated in its proper place. If this approach is not taken, we will easily end up with the worst form of Calvinism. My approach has nothing to do with an "anything-goes" libertarianism, but it is true that I am pragmatic.

    I am personally repulsed by homosexual activities, since I'm only attracted to women and thus it doesn't appeal to me. However, I think that what's important in a Traditional culture is that it is enlightened by the proper hierarchy of principles functioning as a guiding star and higher point of reference - what matters is which form the whole takes, not an obsession with every single individual having to be perfect. The latter fixation is utopian. I think the most realistic and Traditional approach to the homosexual question is not to engage in a Puritan witch-hunt for homosexuals, but exactly to reduce homosexuality to a non-issue in the culture. What people do in their own bedrooms cannot be controlled by the state, and neither should such a form of totalitarian control be seen as desirable. The fact that we are not libertarians shouldn't lead to us embracing the extreme opposite tendency, either. The goal of a Traditional civilization is always to offer a superior point of direction for its people in order to encourage the heroic self-overcoming of Man, but it must also accept that people are unequal. Thus it offers a diversity of social niches and roles for different individuals. What is the most important is that a superior norm is upheld and that the base and the inferior is not worshipped, like in today's society.
     
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