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Luddism and Deep Ecology

Discussion in 'Ecology & Environmentalism' started by Plantagenet, 19 March 2016.

  1. Plantagenet

    Plantagenet Heroic Member

    What are your views on Luddism and so-called Deep Ecology or related ideas like Ecofascism? How do you view industrialization and modern technology as a whole, their effects on society and the environment at large, and even more especially their effects on man's spiritual life?

    If you feel there is an inherent problem with our current way of life or modern technology, what do you think are the best solutions to the problems?
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  2. Werifesterian

    Werifesterian Senior Member

    I think that something on the order of the Butlerian Jihad, the 'war against the thinking machines' as described in Frank Herbert's Dune novels, is eventually going to be necessary. Not leading so much to the total destruction of computers as severe limitations on 'artificial intelligence' development.
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  3. Celtic Skogsra

    Celtic Skogsra Heroic Member

    I could support a moderated 'ecofascism' of sorts after reading the Unabomber; that is, the problems of modern civilization are not only ecological but also psychological and therefore more immediately pressing.
    Last edited: 6 April 2016
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  4. Raisin

    Raisin Senior Member Staff Member

    I don't see how anybody could be on this forum and disagree with the basic standpoint: Not from the quantitative standpoint are un-ecological movements objectionable, e.g. Malthusianism, the supposed effects of greenhouse gasses, etc., but from the qualitative: Urban living, not simply as something which is bleak and soul-effacing in general, but which (when it doesn't remove them entirely) reduces social customs from lived institutions to mere commodities (the essence of Cosmopolitanism); Consumerism, which relies on the frivolity and greed of the customer, and which removes any Craft from the producer; - Both of which requiring the negation of a balanced natural order, which prevents the individual from relating to the World as a medium of contemplation (e.g. the special sort of thought that can only be readily facilitated through woodlands, mountains, etc.) and which divorces them from life in the World per se.

    Other than the most desirous solution of something wiping out nine-tenth's of the global population, such that we radically restructure our mode of living and can see cities and suburbs crumble into becoming new environments, there is a suggestion from a professor I know which I think can be appropriated for our ends: He was deeply concerned about the prospect of technological unemployment, which threatens every profession other than the humanities, and suggested that the solution would need to be: 1) A tax on machines, which would fund 2) a basic living wage. The obvious outcome from doing this, in our current weltanschauung, would be society as a proto-Pleasure Machine. But it seems to me that there is a chance for reform: Given the upheaval of the masses being left without much to do beyond wasting away, the state could structure a new sort of public works: Namely, works which give people meaning, e.g. large-scale state martial arts projects, etc. This would, de facto, subordinate technology and individualism to something higher, and could be the catalyst for a new techno-Traditional order, of which a rebalancing of production and population for the sake of maintaining the new state and resurrecting natural phenomena should be a part.
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  5. Werifesterian

    Werifesterian Senior Member

    Has anyone else here read The Resurrection of Aristocracy by Rudolph Carlyle Evans?
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  6. Saturner

    Saturner Member

    The sooner it all burns the better, man is in no way adjusted for the material conditions of modern technology
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  7. PrinceRomanicus

    PrinceRomanicus Senior Member

    I've seen sci-fi works depicting a world of futuristic technology yet somehow the values of the people are medieval or Victorian. I've always wanted to make the future a reality


    It seems a strong state would be necessary to achieve this with the aid of religious organizations and Traditionalist intellectuals to regulate technology's purpose and not let corporations hijack it.

    I can imagine a world where machines become a new underclass. Machines become slaves or serfs to not just the state and businesses but to all people. Then again that might lead to materialism, I'm not sure how to tackle this completely.
    Last edited: 19 August 2016
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  8. Werifesterian

    Werifesterian Senior Member

    Frank Herbert's Dune certainly depicts such civilisation, at least in the original novel. I don't care for any of the sequels.

    It would be interesting if Traditionalists could 'infiltrate' the Steampunk community to some extent. Given a sound philosophical underpinning it could become a social movement of great value.
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  9. Saturner

    Saturner Member

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  10. Myrddin

    Myrddin Senior Member

    Have seen a few articles about them considering the political climate in Mexico this could spread:scratchchin: Kinda like the vigilante squads that fight cartels.
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