What were the reasons that made you stop being a materialist, and start believing in God

Discussion in 'Religion & Spirituality' started by JonhOliver, 14 September 2018.

  1. JonhOliver

    JonhOliver Member

    For me, it really was just reading the traditionalist authors and when i began to understand the symbolism and the beauty of it all, it was like something just clicked in my brain. I already had far-right political view at that point and was already anti-modernist, so i really wanted to understand why our ancestor thought the way they did. It always seemed ridiculous to me, to consider religion something that was simply made up, and that people began to take very seriously because they were dumb and ignorant.
    I'm writing this in the context that i ordered a book named "5 proofs of the existence of god", not because i'm doubtful but more to use in arguments against atheists. I've got to say however, that from what i know until now about these philosophical arguments that try to "prove" god's existence, i find them to be very lacking. I highly doubt that a single atheist became religious because of them, in fact i think that you could make the most perfect philosophical argument in favor of god's existence that was completely irrefutable, and still you wouldn't manage to convert one atheist.
    I just find them to be always lacking, given the fact that since they're on the level of philosophy and discursive reasoning, you can always come up with some counter-arguments and you can never arrive at a final decision.
    I've also ordered the book "science delusion" by robert sheldrake, which uses scientific evidence, not to prove the existence of god although the author does believe in god, but to support a generally non-materialist view of the world, alongside the books by Dean Radin, which is a para-psychologist, whose work mostly deals with psychic abilities.
    Out of curiosity, did anyone here start believing in god due to having some sort of "mystical" experience? Does anyone here have psi abilities like clairvoyance since an early age?
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  2. Arboreality

    Arboreality Member

    The blindness of the Dark Age as a rule cloaks itself in rationalism.
    András László
    I'm assuming that the book you mentioned is based on the Thomistic proofs. I'd definitely say that Thomism, while very interesting, isn't necessarily a compelling defense of theism. In some ways it's chaining yourself down to a lower level of descent. You're limiting yourselves to degenerated perspectives and tools. The Traditional perspective is that the methods of secular rationalism and empiricism are secondary concerns at best and materialist manias at worse. The Modern veneration of these manias is in truth, sub-rational when you look at it clearly.

    I would say that in many ways I've never truly been a materialist beyond accepting to some degree that materialism is my, "reality." I've always had a deeper impulse that there is more to be seen than merely matter and its movements. I didn't believe in any specific god or gods but I did in a sense believe in Nature as a sacral concept. The rocks, the birds, the trees, they all had a soul that I could sense but couldn't name, could feel but couldn't praise, could know but couldn't teach. Welcoming the animal thrill, breathing of instincts delight as John Meyers O'Hara would call it.

    As you can imagine "Atavism" became my favorite poem as a boy because it at least did begin to articulate it. I read Thoreau and other nature-oriented authors and they also helped me reinforce my budding worldview. I also took up hiking and volunteer work planting trees and picking up litter. Yet, I didn't have words of true power for what I observed until I discovered Guenon when I turned 19. That is when things truly fell into line for me and I began to truly realize what I had been feeling and more importantly, what to do with this feeling, this existence. I wouldn't call it mystical experience.

    It was much more subtle than extreme abilities or insights, rather it was the indescribable immanence and beauty of what is natural, what is sacred. The Tao that can't be named, only experienced. Such experience goes beyond semiotics and materialism and into a higher realm that we have gradually drifted away from over time. I would have experiences with the supra-natural later on in life as I began to organize my inner world much more Traditionally, that is when I began to experience what some would call psi-powers. Again, it was much more subtle than you'd think, and far less glamorous overall. Great question by the way.
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  3. JonhOliver

    JonhOliver Member

    Not only, on the cover it also talks about Aristotle, Plotinus, Leibniz and Saint Augustine.

    Very good answer, i think that if we would begin to live a more natural life, away from the big cities and in contact with nature, the truths of tradition would become much more self-evident to everyone.
    This can purely be seen by the fact that being in contact with beauty, we are in a closer contact with god. All of nature is beautiful, from the white sandy deserts to the dark green frozen pine forests of the north, and in all of it we can see a spark of god. Only man trough our free will, has the possibility to create something ugly, disordered and chaotic, we can also create beauty, but i think that in the modern world we know which path has been chosen. Thereby, being in closer to nature and away from the man made monstrosities that fill the land, will put us in a closer relationship to what is real and eternal.
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  4. Arboreality

    Arboreality Member

    Definitely, those who are close to nature have a certain resistance to Modernity. In fact, the word pagan itself comes from the Latin word pāgānus which refers to people who live outside the cities, the rural population. These people were notorious for being much more resistant to Christianization than urban Romans. They preferred to stick to the Old Ways, and even after they were Christianized they would syncretize Christianity with these Old Ways unless physically forced not to. We can see this trend in the other Christianizations and even the Islamization conquests as well.

    In many ways the urban lifestyle has a plasticized and profane nomadic nature while the rural lifestyle is more about authentic and telestic roots. There's a reason the phrase, "Blood and Soil" was so popular in the agrarian movements of Europe during the early 20th century. Farmers can't move to a new farm as easily as an urbanite can, after all. The urbanite is much more likely to rent rather than own, manufacture rather than craft, and consume rather than cherish. I've talked about this before, but the family farm itself even exemplifies the complimentary nature of the sexes, the unified nature.

    While the men worked the field women would be busy with many tasks, preserving fruits and vegetables, rendering lard, making clothes, and teaching children to read and write, typically from the Bible or other sacred text, this among umpteen tasks that our culture has left to the monopolies and to the state. The division of labor provided by the complimentary nature of the sexes allows a family farm to function. The fields become the domain of the man and the house the domain of the woman. Another way that attuning to Nature is helpful is that it helps us perceive and utilize metaphysical "cul-de-sacs."

    I've found that when we talk about all organisms, each and every one, they each represent an inlet on the Cosmic and Hyper-Cosmic path. Whether they're animal, plant, or otherwise. Think of each as a dead end which is in some way cut off from what we are as individuals, but exists both as teacher and tool for us. All kinds of organisms are the projections and materialization of human forms of consciousness. This is why Traditionalists, at least from a metaphysical lens, choose to view biological evolution the complete opposite way that it's currently perceived by Modern academia, that is to say, Higher-to-Lower.

    The ancient shamans understood this on a very deep level. In these Traditional cultures, animals tended to represent spiritual concepts and creations. Talking animals appear to receptive shamans in dreams and visions, teaching these spiritual leaders the ways of Nature and how their community fits into these ways. Animals each acted as specific guides in this fashion. On occasion shamans would commune with them to attain courage, endurance, cleverness, and sometimes even more interesting powers. I recommend the book Shiva: The Wild God of Power and Ecstasy if you're interested in more about this kind of topic, very great book.

    Shamans didn't need years of training, what was far more effective was communing with Nature, even better being given an ordeal by Nature both in the physical and metaphysical senses. The animals and spirits alike acted like a fire that burns away the dross and tears away false notions and unhelpful vices. Truly a sacrificial act of self mortification and sacral willpower. This is what could be called the archetype of Shiva/Heracles. Consider the story of how Shiva and his hard-fought tiger skin coat, or Heracles' slaughter of the Nemean lion and subsequent wearing of its hide. Taking what is hostile to Enlightenment and transmuting it.

    Rekindling these altars where none atone, interweaving ourselves with Nature again is very helpful against Modernity.
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  5. WearySearcher

    WearySearcher Junior Member

    What do you think of the idea that shamans became priests with the development of complex society and the transformation of the tribal ethnos into the peasants? Jeremy Naydler has suggested something like this for Egyptian religion, and Alexander Dugin thinks this holds true for Indo-European society in general.
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  6. Arboreality

    Arboreality Member

    I think that this is likely true for many societies, especially Indo-European ones.
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  7. Bast

    Bast Member Sustaining Member

    Conversion is something I've been a little jealous others had the experience of, because there are men like Augustine, who were forgiven much, and so loved God very much, but I'm grateful for never knowing a day without the Lord. I don't come out of materialism, except in my day-to-day, which is still a considerable influence, so I have been sceptical of modernity for a long time, based on violence it does to souls, to the earth, to virtue and glory. Wolfram von Eschenbach taught me more than any teacher wanted, and he didn't make me a debtor's slave for listening.
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